I’m certainly no expert on the subject, but my students ask me about college applications and decision-making each year--especially when applications and acceptances are due. I had a nice online “chat” with a student about the subject and I thought I’d share it with you. His questions are very typical and I hope my answers can offer some help with the tough decisions you face.
Since this chat years ago, I have continued to teach juniors and seniors and my general advice has not changed. These days I really emphasize finding a good fit for you academically, economically, socially, and geographically. If you struggle with any one of those areas during college, you won't be happy. For example, you may think it's the best school for you academically and socially and cost doesn't matter, but maybe it really is too far away from your family or you can't stand cold weather. I didn't even apply to any east coast schools simply because of geography. If everything else looks good, but you're going to need heavy loans and to work a job while taking classes then maybe that will be too much of a strain for you. Undergraduate university prestige is not nearly as important as that of the graduate school you attend, if you are planning on graduate school. Either way, finding a good fit for you individually (not for your parents, not for your friends) will be your best chance for happiness and academic success leading to a good future.
(The screen names have been changed and the conversation was edited for anonymity and readability.)
October
CuriousSenior: hey ms. brown
Ms. Brown: hi
Ms. Brown: what's up?
CuriousSenior: i guess the main thing i wanted to tell you is
that i've kinda narrowed down my college list so i know
what kind of things i'll need to apply.
Ms. Brown: that's good
Ms. Brown: which schools made the cut?
CuriousSenior: umm... there are still cuts to be made... . i
think once i decide whether i'm going to a private school,
a public school i'll play sports at, or a public school i wont
play sports at i'll have it down to a good number
CuriousSenior: right now i'm leaning towards public schools i
will play sports at
Ms. Brown: I guess you need to decide what you
want to base decisions on: sports or academics
Ms. Brown: but a good combination will probably
come to light
CuriousSenior: that's only kind of true cause all of the
sports schools i have in mind are also TOP academic schools
Ms. Brown: choosing a school based on
sports isn't necessarily putting academics aside
Ms. Brown: I think you can get a good education at
just about any college or university
CuriousSenior: yeah, i
think so too
Ms. Brown: it depends on how the students apply
themselfs
Ms. Brown: themselves*
Ms. Brown: the kinds of classes you take and how you advocate for your own
education
Ms. Brown: I
think too many students at TP think they have
to go to the very, very best school or it
doesn't mean anything
Ms. Brown: that's not true at all
CuriousSenior: yeah.
Ms. Brown: students will be more successful at a
school that's the right fit
Ms. Brown: socially, academically,
geographically, and economically
Ms. Brown: if you strain any one of those areas, you
won't be happy
Ms. Brown: employers and grad schools would
rather see successful students at SDSU than those who
barely made it through Harvard
CuriousSenior: hahaha. really the only thing keeping ivy's
on my list is the prestige, and i guess that's not right. but
assuming i can get into the ivy's, with sports as a big help, i
feel almost foolish giving it up
Ms. Brown: There's something else that most high
school students don't understand:
CuriousSenior: whats that...
Ms. Brown: let's say someone
chooses UC Whatever for their great biology program
Ms. Brown: that prestige is usually based on the
research and publications of the professors
Ms. Brown: those profs are usually only working w/
grad students who are benefiting from that prestige
Ms. Brown: many graduate programs do not select
students from their own undergraduate programs
CuriousSenior: yeah. ic
CuriousSenior: so you're saying reputation/prestige is
overrated?
CuriousSenior: for undergrad especially?
Ms. Brown: so, a UC
Whatever undergrad who
chose the school for its biology reputation, may have a
lesser chance of getting into the prestigious bio grad
program
CuriousSenior: ic
Ms. Brown: yes...reputation is overrated
CuriousSenior: well i guess that leads me to my other
question i wanted to ask you
Ms. Brown: but when I say this, I feel like students
aren't going to take me seriously
Ms. Brown: since I went to prestigious Mudd
Ms. Brown: which is, of course, only
prestigious to people who know what it is.
Ms. Brown: most people don't, and don't care
CuriousSenior: i've been there before
CuriousSenior: i know they only offer about 10 majors
CuriousSenior: all science/math related
CuriousSenior: and they ride unicycles
Ms. Brown: 6
CuriousSenior: and its a tiny school
Ms. Brown: math, engr, bio, physics, chem, comp
sci
CuriousSenior: haha
Ms. Brown: about 600 when I was there
Ms. Brown: more now, I think
Ms. Brown: so what was that other question you
wanted to ask
CuriousSenior: i wanted to ask what you think i should major
in if i told you what my interests were
CuriousSenior: since all my
interessts revolve around the
majors at mudd
Ms. Brown: I can try to advise, but that's another
myth...
Ms. Brown: that you need to decide now
CuriousSenior: well i want to sort of have an idea now cause
that way i can eliminate a few more schools that might
specialize is something other than what i want to major in
Ms. Brown: that's good thinking
Ms. Brown: one of my h.s. friends majored in
...what was it...cybernetics
Ms. Brown: it combined biology, robotics, ethics
and humanities
CuriousSenior: whoa.
Ms. Brown: now he's maintaining computers
and programming databases and
web sites at UCSF
CuriousSenior: ic
Ms. Brown: Another friend changed his major many
times
Ms. Brown: I think he landed on
something called
"psycho-biology"
Ms. Brown: now he works at a
pharmaceutical company organizing studies w/ experimental medication
for Alzheimer's disease
Ms. Brown: but it took him a long time to decide on
a major
Ms. Brown: he didn't plan to do what he's doing
now
Ms. Brown: nor did my cybernetics friend
CuriousSenior: haha. i
don't think i'll know what i'm going to
do either, until i'm actually doing it
Ms. Brown: I think, besides me, only one of my
close h.s. friends is doing what he set out to do after
h.s.
Ms. Brown: He's a
local veterinarian.
Ms. Brown: Another friend double majored in
economics and archeology
Ms. Brown: now he's running the finances of an
office-machine sales company
CuriousSenior: ic. so you've always wanted to be a
teacher?
Ms. Brown: I've thought about being a teacher
forever
Ms. Brown: but I didn't know if that's because that's
the only job I was exposed to
Ms. Brown: or because of the myth "teaching is the
only thing you can do w/ a math major"
Ms. Brown: or because I really did want to do it
Ms. Brown: In college, I tried to make a point to
learn about other careers
Ms. Brown: experience research mathematics
Ms. Brown: work on an industry-type project my
senior year
Ms. Brown: and spend time in local schools
Ms. Brown: the more I did in education, the more I
knew that's what I wanted to pursue
CuriousSenior: thats cool
Ms. Brown: I get asked about it a lot
CuriousSenior: my dad actually tells me there's a lot you
can do with a math major. he said its a good basis for a
lot of graduate school majors
Ms. Brown: It sure is
CuriousSenior: he told me same with phsyics
Ms. Brown: the more math you have the better you
will do in any field
Ms. Brown: I have a friend who just finished his PhD
in biology
Ms. Brown: he said that all of the math he had to
have a Mudd really helped him out in grad school
Ms. Brown: Not necessarily because he was using
the formulas or whatever,
Ms. Brown: but because it helped him analyze better
Ms. Brown: He said it was amazing how little math
many of his peers really knew
CuriousSenior: hahaha
Ms. Brown: One math major at Mudd
with me went to
medical school
CuriousSenior: i'm really starting to think i want to major in
math. because i'm really interseted in logic and
probability and knowing that there's a lot you can do with a
math major is good
Ms. Brown: :-)
Ms. Brown: Usually w/ a math major you can also
take a lot of science
CuriousSenior: don't some schools have majors that are
really specific, like statistics which i would think fell into
math
Ms. Brown: some have mathematical physics
programs
Ms. Brown: In large universities,
statistics is its own
department
Ms. Brown: Stat is actually my weakest area of math
Ms. Brown: So, it was just the college stuff you
wanted to talk about?
CuriousSenior: pretty much
CuriousSenior: i thought you'd have some good insight
Ms. Brown: I hope I helped
CuriousSenior: definitely did
Ms. Brown: I've had this conversation in various
forms many times in the last few years
Ms. Brown: most of my thoughts haven't changed
Ms. Brown: would you mind if I posted pieces of
this conversation on my web site or discussion board?
Ms. Brown: I won't use your name
Ms. Brown: or sn
Ms. Brown: maybe it will help other students too
CuriousSenior: haha. go for it
Ms. Brown: thanks
10/12/02